Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 11:18:13

@Åshild (Ash) has joined the channel

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 11:18:18

@aidanva has joined the channel

Ele (eg715@york.ac.uk)
2020-08-19 11:29:27

@Ele has joined the channel

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:29:41

Hello all! 👋

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:30:40

Back to our discussion @aidanva about the different classifications of the data types for single-genomes 🙂

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:31:40

The categories we were considering are: raw, assembly (assembled contigs) and consensus. Also MAGs?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:33:06

I will argue that any assembly it is actually a MAG

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:33:32

since we always have a metagenomic background even when we capture the data

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:33:46

true

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:34:34

so I guess that should go into our definition of assembly

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:36:24

so I think those categories are good. however, does anyone else think we should include more categories?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:37:53

we could have “assembly_MAG” as a category since contigs form a MAG

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:38:05

yes, I like that

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:39:21

Cool!

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:40:52

So for consensus I think we should define as any sequence derived from a consensus calling algorithm

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:41:49

and for assembly_MAG: anything that has derived of an assembly process independently of the completeness

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:42:29

both those sound good!

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:43:24

are you guys aware of any paper where they only have published the mapping reads to the specific genome as opposed to the raw data?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:44:11

yes, a few of the Mühlemann virus papers have done that

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:44:38

then we may need a category to capture this…

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:45:32

Actually maybe they published just the assembly, not sure. Will have to check

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:47:49

but I guess it is a potential scenario… should we could this mapped ? I can not think of a better name now..

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:49:43

for definition of raw data, how about something like: raw data: shotgun or capture data in fastq format without any type of depletion or computational manipulation of read/data composition

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:50:22

yeah, sounds good

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:51:20

although, sometimes the data does not contain adapters… but I think we can consider that raw. So maybe add: “With exception of adapters being trimmed”?

👍 James Fellows Yates
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 16:59:20

*Thread Reply:* This is how it should be

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:05:28

*Thread Reply:* IN theory, any data at ENA/SRA should not contain technical sequences https://ena-docs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/submit/fileprep/reads.html#fastq-format and soon SRA will remove qualities from fastq

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:06:03

*Thread Reply:* well they have a call to ask the community

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:06:28

*Thread Reply:* Yes, unfortunately people ignore that -.-. surprised thats not checked for actually.

Yes I saw...I hope ena doesn't follow suit

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:06:42

*Thread Reply:* Terrible for us

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:06:57

*Thread Reply:* They have CRAM as an alternative

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:07:19

*Thread Reply:* let’s see, the community is not so happy

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:51:48

Yes

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:52:12

good point

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:53:43

instead of mapped how about aligned or reference_aligned ?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 12:54:46

I like reference_aligned

👍 Åshild (Ash)
ivelsko (velsko@shh.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 16:51:14

@ivelsko has joined the channel

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 16:58:20

@James Fellows Yates has joined the channel

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 16:59:04

What is the final list of cateogirs then?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:00:24

raw, assemblyMAG, referencealigned, consensus

👍 James Fellows Yates
Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:00:26

@Antonio Fernandez-Guerra has joined the channel

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:05:21

I’m putting together the final definitions for each category, feedback welcome.

❤️ James Fellows Yates
Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:09:17

I would add another category that is called binned or something similar. We are developing methods to recruit reads that might belong to the same genome using protein assembly methods

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:10:56

Sure! Could you provide a short definition as well? 🙂

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:11:42

So far we have: raw: shotgun or capture data in fastq format without any type of depletion or computational manipulation of read/data composition, with exception of adapters being trimmed

assembly_MAG: anything that is derived of an assembly process, independent of the completeness

consensus: Any sequence derived from a consensus calling algorithm

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:12:22

@aidanva what do you think about this for reference_aligned? reference_aligned: target reads derived from alignment (mapping) of metagenomic data to a reference sequence

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:12:36

binned: reads recruited by ancient co-abundant genes

👍 Åshild (Ash)
Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:13:14

although binned might be to general, mags are binned, mapped are binned, let me think for a better name

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:16:49

maybe we can use the prefix binned_ for MAGs and CAGs, as they are creating bins, then we could have binned_cag , binned_mag , just a suggestion

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:17:01

they are very ugly names

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:17:15

the binned_ ones

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:17:33

No worries about the names!

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:18:49

Then I suppose we should have assembly instead of assembly_MAG ?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:19:25

or none

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:19:32

I would have, as not all assemblies are MAGs, but all mags are assemblies (most of them)

👍 Åshild (Ash)
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:20:00

Ok, cool

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:20:59

@Antonio Fernandez-Guerra could you provide a definition for the binned_cag as welll?

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:21:10

is the one from binned

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:21:26

ah, yes, sorry

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:21:32

binned_cag: reads recruited by ancient co-abundant genes

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:22:29

now we have some flexibility if new techniques appear to bin reads of similar genomes

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:31:19

and for binned_mag ? Something along the lines of: binned_mag: a single-taxon assembly based on one or more binned metagenomes that is a close representation of a known isolate or represents a novel isolate.

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:32:01

I would remove the isolate part

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:33:17

so, just binned_mag: a single-taxon assembly based on one or more binned metagenomes

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:33:22

I like the reference_aligned definition

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:33:35

Also I like the binned_mag definition

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:36:13

the problem of mags is that you are not sure that is a single taxon, but you might have contigs(reads) from different populations. For example, Meren has in his glossary: Metagenome-assembled genome (MAG) A genome bin that meets certain quality requirements and can be assumed to represent contigs from one bin of a metagenome, which collectively represent the DNA of (what we think is) a single population.

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:36:42

You also have the Segata style Single Genome Bin (SGB)

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:36:55

(at least i mostly see them in their papers

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:38:24

i would keep in the standard terms: https://www.nature.com/articles/nbt.3893

Nature Biotechnology
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:40:33

Do these seem ok now? raw: shotgun or capture data in fastq format without any type of depletion or computational manipulation of read/data composition, with exception of adapters being trimmed

assembly: anything that is derived of an assembly process, independent of the completeness

binned_mag: a single-taxon assembly based on one or more binned metagenomes that meet certain quality requirements and can be assumed to represent contigs from one bin of a metagenome

binned_cag: reads recruited by ancient co-abundant genes

reference_aligned: target reads derived from alignment (mapping) of metagenomic data to a reference sequence

consensus: Any sequence derived from a consensus calling algorithm

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:41:12

sounds good

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:47:20

Aida (sitting next to me) and says she approves. My only comments are to define typical output for assembly and consensus to make sure to not leave ambiguity

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:48:27

For example a mag is also intrinsically an assembly

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:48:57

And some people consider napping to a reference an assembly

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:49:41

not really

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:49:54

an assembly doesn’t have binning

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:50:20

you are adding an extra layer on top of assembly

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:50:56

again, I'm not saying its correct but it's how some people will use it, so we need to teach them to use the right term

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:50:59

and mapping to a reference, is not assembly either as you are not using any approach like de brujin, OLC, …

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:51:07

we need to be correct

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:51:23

then in description we leave ambiguities clear

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:52:06

binned_mag sounds good

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:52:29

maybe on assembly we can add some of the techniques for assembly

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:53:22

That's what I meant ☝️

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 17:53:24

...assembly process (de Brujin, overlap-layout-consensus...)...

👍 James Fellows Yates
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 17:58:00

assembly: anything that is derived of an assembly process (i.e. de Brujin, overlap-layout-consensus) , independent of the completeness

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:58:50

Maybe single or metagenome assembler? And by assembly are you specifically meaning De novo?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 17:59:23

If it's de novo assembly just putting that in the definition would be enough for me

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:00:23

in both cases can be de novo

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:00:52

and you can use an assembler that can work with a single genome or a mix

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 18:01:41

I meant that if by the assembly category itself: I would be happy with the definition of:

Anything that is derived from a de novo assembly process, independent of completeness

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 18:01:48

Then we can skip the whole methods thing

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:01:53

perfect

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 18:02:41

Because that is what distinguishes it from 'reference guided assembly' (what I've seen in the literature for reference mapping)

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 18:03:28

And then for consensus... That's the more tricky one

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:04:27

then you can have reference-guided de novo assembly

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:05:04

I think we then get lost in details, and we should take a compromise

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:05:42

I would take assembly as both types, maybe add the program you used for the assembly

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:07:55

then how we separate consensus sequences from reference assemblies

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 18:09:12

What about: consensus sequence derived from consensus calling algorithm of reference aligned data?

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:09:14

need to jump now, catch up later

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:22:40

What about assembly_denovo assembly_guided and consensus and the last step of the process takes priority

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 18:23:19

I.e reference-guided + consensus = consensus

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-19 20:45:37

To use @Åshild (Ash) definitions are my suggestions to assembly and consensus OK?:

  • raw: shotgun or capture data in fastq format without any type of depletion or computational manipulation of read/data composition, with exception of adapters being trimmed

  • assembly: anything that is derived of a de novo assembly process, independent of the completeness

  • binned_mag: a single-taxon assembly based on one or more binned metagenomes that meet certain quality requirements and can be assumed to represent contigs from one bin of a metagenome

  • binned_cag: reads recruited by ancient co-abundant genes

  • reference_aligned: target reads derived from alignment (mapping) of metagenomic data to a reference sequence

  • consensus: Any sequence derived from a consensus calling algorithm applied to reference aligned data (typically a FASTA style file, as can be found on e.g. NCBI GenBank)

👍 Åshild (Ash), aidanva
Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 20:47:37

Sounds good

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-19 20:47:48

The simpler the better

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-19 21:54:27

@James Fellows Yates Yes, looks good! 🙂

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 09:42:23

PR made, please check!

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 09:42:23

https://github.com/SPAAM-workshop/AncientMetagenomeDir/pull/146

} jfy133 (https://github.com/jfy133)
Reviewers
@genomewalker, @aidaanva, @ashildv
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 09:42:38

Ignore validation fails, this will happen as the JSONs aren't integrated into master yet

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 09:48:08

Would like two approvals for this one

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 09:56:19

In a meeting until noon, can have a look after lunch

❤️ James Fellows Yates
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:00:10

There are 2 krause-kyora 2018 publications btw 😉

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:01:14

*Thread Reply:* We have the two siseus, right?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:01:23

*Thread Reply:* Oh you mean with the keys

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:01:29

*Thread Reply:* I've already sneakly fixed that a couple days ago 😉

👍 Åshild (Ash)
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:01:59

*Thread Reply:* good!

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:19:44

We have a problem... Aida just added a paper and it's now missing from the new singlegneome-hostassoicated list by the looks of it?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:20:20

After we merged the new colum thing

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:20:38

oh... so how do you wanna hadle that?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:20:48

files

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:20:50

I can reenter the data, I have save it on my computer

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:21:20

I don't undertand the issue though

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:21:34

https://github.com/SPAAM-workshop/AncientMetagenomeDir/blob/master/ancientsinglegenome-hostassociated/ancientsinglegenome-hostassociated.tsv

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:21:38

This has the new data_type column

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:21:41

oh I see

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:21:43

But Key isn't there

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:21:53

well, I reenter them then, no problem

👍 James Fellows Yates, Åshild (Ash)
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:25:52

done, if any of you does the review I will merge it

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:26:17

done

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:26:24

it seems that all open pull requests will have the same issue. I am just doing a PR review of Barquera

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:26:25

Not sure what happened there 🤔

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:26:48

I will fix the two open PRs

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:26:49

One moment

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:26:56

OK

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:27:25

Just nee dto wait for Aida to mere

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:27:32

ok

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:27:34

it's done

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:28:43

Oops lost the Barquera latlongs

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:30:15

Or didn't add them in the first place :face_palm: sorry Ash

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:30:53

I can’t do anything with this pull request , right?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:31:05

In about 30seconds you can

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:32:10

ok now you can review 🙂

👍 Åshild (Ash)
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:35:11

Krause Kyora also good now too (or should be)

👍 Åshild (Ash)
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 12:52:09

*Thread Reply:* review done

❤️ James Fellows Yates
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-20 12:57:50

*Thread Reply:* Fixed, check again ❤️

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-20 14:56:10

*Thread Reply:* approved, there is some conflicts though

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-21 16:00:26

Can I rename to “single-genome-ancientmetagenomedir”? Reason why I didn’t start with “ancientmetagenomedir” is bc it now looks like. this on my sidebar 😉 😉

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-21 16:01:00

Yes please!

Antonio Fernandez-Guerra (antonio@metagenomics.eu)
2020-08-21 16:01:13

it also can be shortened as amd- or -amd

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:01:41

Yes go for it

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:01:51

Please also rename the environment

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-21 16:07:12

*Thread Reply:* how? can’t seem to find on google

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:07:22

*Thread Reply:* Don't worry, fine it

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:07:25

*Thread Reply:* Done**

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-21 16:07:51

*Thread Reply:* but how? so I know for future

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-21 16:07:53

*Thread Reply:* 😉

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:08:54

*Thread Reply:* It was the other channel, maybe not visible as you weren't there

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:09:16

*Thread Reply:* Sorry I mean the AncientMetagenomeDir-environment slack channel

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-21 16:09:29

*Thread Reply:* I see

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:09:38

*Thread Reply:* <#C018UBC9T47|dir-environmental> <- which is there. Would be the same procedure as for this one

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:03:07

Or suffix could be: the 'Dir as @Becky Cribdon referred to it today 🤣

👍 Åshild (Ash)
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:05:53

Maybe put dir First though, so they are all tither?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:06:03

Or is that also too long?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-21 16:06:18

so dir-single-genome ?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-21 16:06:25

Yes

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-24 14:13:58

Another question, as @aidanva brought up/predicted before, but it has now come up in https://github.com/SPAAM-workshop/AncientMetagenomeDir/pull/170 from @Becky Cribdon, in de Dios 2020 they report hits to a eukaryotic pathogen but they only recover/analyses a mt genome for one of the pathogens

} Becky-Cribdon (https://github.com/Becky-Cribdon)
Comments
4
Reviewers
@jfy133
Becky Cribdon (r.cribdon@warwick.ac.uk)
2020-08-24 14:14:03

@Becky Cribdon has joined the channel

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-24 14:14:12

How should we indicate this, if we should?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-24 14:14:17

And then what should we allow to be included?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-24 14:14:59

Maybe with genome_type: chromosome vs plasmid, although someone would need to do a lit. review for what we have missed with the latter...

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-24 14:15:20

I think it makes sense to add that column

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-24 14:15:30

but I will also add mtDNA

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-24 14:15:50

maybe organelle to keep it generic?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-24 14:16:01

plasmids are not organelles...

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-24 14:16:14

it should be chromosome, plasmid, organelle

👍 James Fellows Yates
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-24 14:16:22

I meant organelle instead of mtDNA

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-24 14:16:33

aaah, sure then, sorry I missunderstood

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-24 23:23:09

@channel I am working on the Kay 2015 paper, here there are several individuals with mixed infections of TB strains, for example one individual may have 3 TB strains. - according to the authors’ analysis. Do I enter every strain separately OR do I make one entry per individual?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-24 23:25:51

Another issue, which relates to the Krause-Kyora 2018 paper. Here they publish data for several leprosy genomes. Some are novel and some are additional data for samples already published by Schuenemann 2018, but using a slightly different sample name. How can I make it clear that the data from the Krause-Kyora 2018 paper belongs to some of the same samples from Schuenemann 2018?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 08:14:54

> @channel I am working on the Kay 2015 paper, here there are several individuals with mixed infections of TB strains, for example one individual may have 3 TB strains. - according to the authors’ analysis. Do I enter every strain  separately OR do I make one entry per individual? As we only list species, then one entry per individual (IMO). Pepole should still check the oriignal publication for what they are looking for

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 08:15:50

> Another issue, which relates to the Krause-Kyora 2018 paper. Here they publish data for several leprosy genomes. Some are novel and some are additional data for samples already published by Schuenemann 2018, but using a slightly different sample name. How can I make it clear that the data from the Krause-Kyora 2018 paper belongs to some of the same samples from Schuenemann 2018? How sligtly different is the sample name? If it's just like _new or something, I would re-use the old names and try and duplicate exactly (as far as possible) the info from the previous paper

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 09:39:21

It’s G507 v. Jørgen_507

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 09:41:48

Ok let me look

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 09:43:14

Maybe put G507 (Jørgen_507)?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 09:47:58

Sounds good 👍

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 09:47:59

Aww man!

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 09:48:05

downgrade

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 09:48:17

😂

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 16:55:53

Are we including single microbial genomes from ancient herbaria specimens? Thinking Phytophthora infestans etc.

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 16:56:10

Yes

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 16:56:26

Aida tried dealing with Yoshida 2913 today

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 16:58:56

Just added another: Martin 2016

👍 James Fellows Yates
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:02:48

Cool

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:02:54

The Yoshida is almost ready

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:03:06

Just two samples not in the ENA

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:03:21

I emailed the authors... let’s see what they say

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:04:22

I hate when that happens! Why do people publish papers and don’t release the data, even though they provide and accession number in the paper?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:05:05

*Thread Reply:* They are so fed up of the whole thing they forget

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:05:34

*Thread Reply:* (speaking from experience)

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:05:47

*Thread Reply:* shifty eyes

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:04:39

rage

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:06:30

😱😱😱😱😱

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:06:48

These are all genomes?!

👍 Åshild (Ash)
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:11:51

*Thread Reply:* yes, should be

😱 James Fellows Yates
Miriam Bravo (bravolomiriam@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:09:00

@Miriam Bravo has joined the channel

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:23:40

Saville 2016 sequnce mito-genomes of Phytophthora infestans and did genotyping, do we include it? https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0168381

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:25:41

This was the thing @aidanva brought up earlier, I guess we need to discuss

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:46:05

Have come across several mito-papers now

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:47:55

Can you make a PR with a new column (and README) with something like genome_level

👍 Åshild (Ash)
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:48:08

With two options: chromosome and organelle

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:48:13

I don't want to get smaller than that I think

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:48:27

Everything already on there should be then chromosome

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 17:48:42

I think that's the simplest, @aidanva?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:50:40

works, plasmids are a type of organelle

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:56:52

Everything in the list is chromosomes as far as I am aware

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 17:57:27

And the two options sound good

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 18:04:12

Can you do that @Åshild (Ash)?

👍 Åshild (Ash)
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 21:59:11

yup

❤️ James Fellows Yates
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-25 21:59:38

Thanks @Miriam Bravo for the PR for Kerudin! I've made a few comments on the the PR, https://github.com/SPAAM-workshop/AncientMetagenomeDir/pull/195

} mibr30 (https://github.com/mibr30)
👍:skin_tone_4: Miriam Bravo
Miriam Bravo (bravolomiriam@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 00:44:36

*Thread Reply:* Thanks!! 🙂

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-25 22:15:19

Does this sound ok for the Readme, for the genome_level column?

Specify one of two options: chromosome or organelle

  • organelle: if a study has only published a micorbial mitochondrial genome (e.g. for Plasmodium sp.) or a bacterial plasmid sequence
  • chromosome: if a study a published the complete genome (chromosome and plasmid) or just the chromosome
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 07:12:34

@Åshild (Ash) Thank you! I ended up tweaking it slightly after discussion with Aida this morning, but otherwise merged (and dealt with stupid python -identtation JSON bollocks).

The main change was: I switched it to genometype, because I realised genomelevel might get sligtly confused with assembly level in NCBI/EBI (contigs, scaffolds, chromosome, complete etc.. and I added a little more documentation (Aida pointed out should emphasis that the study must have aimed to reconstructed 'whole' versions of each genome, not the gene stuff, like in the issue you closed last night)

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:16:26

Great! Thanks 😊

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:20:50

So... I have a question, I am now putting in Martin 2016. Most of their samples are from 1950s until 2000s. Should they all be considered ancient?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:22:17

based on what we discuss yesterday everything from 10 years onwards, should be considered ancient. If that's the case, then we need to add a bunch more of studies that dealt with very young samples

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:25:43

Ooof. Good point. We can either exclude anything younger than 1950 (when did Sanger sequencing start?), Or just say include them if they report them as ancient.

I'm currently feeling like the former might be safer, as as @aidanva says we might end up with a massive flood of stuff and it'll get out of hand...

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:26:24

Sanger sequencing was develop in 1977

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:26:32

Maybe we should move this to #ancientmetagenomedir as this would cover that

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:26:38

Cover everything**

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:26:45

Maybe anything older than that?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:27:44

let's see what other think in the general channel, Even though that when it was invented I dunno if it was widely used

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:28:00

@aidanva could you copy and paste your original message then my response there?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:28:14

Or maybe 1950 is also easier because it's our date limit

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:28:48

Sanger was first commercialised in 1986

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:28:51

Maybe 1980?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:29:12

So I think we could set the cut off in 1990?

ivelsko (velsko@shh.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:29:42

I don’t understand why the date of sequencing technology should be used to decide if a sample is “ancient”. isn’t it better to use the 10-years you specificed earlier?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:30:07

but 10 years since now, or 10 years since the study was published?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:30:08

Fair point @ivelsko

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:30:19

I think the second makes more sense

👍 James Fellows Yates
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:31:20

I guess @aidanva's point is that there is a lot of medical papers we are missing

👍 aidanva
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:31:42

Exactly

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:32:26

And suddenly we will have loads of things to add. On the Otherhand they are valid I guess, but I think maybe out of scope for the review by Tina and co. Maybe we could prioritise for first release anything older than 1950

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:33:04

Then we can write the Preprint/paper based on that, and then continue with the additions after that

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:33:12

(then there is less stress)

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:33:17

What about borderline samples 1952? xD

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:34:47

I can make milestones for release to help track that too

ivelsko (velsko@shh.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:34:49

I agree w/ a hard date cut-off to start, and really stick with it. So don’t include border-line samples, b/c then you have to decide how far youwant to stretch the border

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:36:19

Ok, then I will complete Martin 2016 with all the samples prior to 2006, however I won't make a PR because none of the samples are prior to 1950

👍 Åshild (Ash), James Fellows Yates
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:40:17

Make it a draft PR with a comment

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:40:22

To that effect

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 09:41:08

Ok, wanna me to write in the ancientmetagenomedir channel that we decided that for the first release we will only consider samples prior to 1950?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 09:42:10

Yes please. And say I'll tagging all papers with that date and so people should only assign themselves to those

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-26 20:58:01

@channel should I merge the 5/6 Iceman H. pylori samples into one so it represents a single genome (as they actually merge all into one, but I think I was thinking too much of microbiome samples at the time...)?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-08-26 21:03:20

I would merge into one

👍 Åshild (Ash)
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-27 09:30:30

Could someone review this: https://github.com/SPAAM-workshop/AncientMetagenomeDir/pull/216

Fixes Maixner and changes versioning system to a vYY.MM based system, as I think this is more readable for humans when we will have time based releases

} jfy133 (https://github.com/jfy133)
Comments
1
Maria Spyrou (spyrou@shh.mpg.de)
2020-08-27 15:42:22

@Maria Spyrou has joined the channel

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-31 14:06:09

Already in the list 😉

🏎️ James Fellows Yates
Maria Spyrou (spyrou@shh.mpg.de)
2020-08-31 14:07:27

*Thread Reply:* Wow, great!

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-31 14:08:49

*Thread Reply:* Or, rather it is an issue and Aida is already assigned to it 🙂

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-08-31 14:08:59

*Thread Reply:* almost in the list

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-31 14:06:14

@Maria Spyrou coudl you also post that in #papers!

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-08-31 14:06:23

And thanks for also posting it here 😄

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 12:40:03

@Åshild (Ash) @aidanva you need to come up with a team name

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 12:40:20

Environmental core people are now @thedir-team-dirt on github

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 13:23:15

Irina and I now: @thedir-team-bugparty

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:43:22

what about thedir-team-pathogen_peeps @aidanva?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 13:43:43

pathopeeps?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:43:44

pathopeeps?

👍 Åshild (Ash)
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:43:50

hahahaha jinx

😆 Åshild (Ash)
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:43:50

xD

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:44:05

sounds good

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 13:44:10

jinx

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 13:44:18

pathopeeps it is

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 13:45:50
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:46:28

“child team members”??

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 13:46:45

Sub-team of core team

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:46:50

hahahah

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:46:52

ok

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 13:47:18

not 100% what that means but 🤷

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 13:47:51

I had a mental image of Maia joining github

🤣 aidanva
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 13:48:44

I've also removed myself, and made you both maintainers, so you can make teams/modify from your team and under as yo uwish

👍 Åshild (Ash), aidanva
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 14:10:08

I’ve just added two new issues for papers on plasmodium mtDNA, which were previously not included.

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 14:10:21

👍

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 14:10:29

Should we include those in the current release or should hey go in the next one?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 14:10:39

Next one. Release is fixed now

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 14:11:08

Only updates to the release are major breaking things (like when I missed the pathogen list from the ZIP file 😅 )

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 14:12:02

Also, there is the Chan 2013 paper which published the first evidence for TB in one of the hungarian mummies also included in the Kay 2015 paper (included in the list already), should we include/exclude this paper?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 14:12:33

What exactly did they do in Chan 2013 vs Kay 2015?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 14:13:00

Chan paper did metagenomic analysis of body_68

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 14:13:13

which was further sequenced, I believe, in Kay 2015

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-09-04 14:16:44

The same individual (body_68) was re-sampled by Kay etal 2015

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-04 14:24:23

Hmm ok

Katerina Guschanski (katerina.guschanski@ebc.uu.se)
2020-09-10 09:56:01

@Katerina Guschanski has joined the channel

Kun Huang (kun.huang@unitn.it)
2020-09-11 09:13:43

@Kun Huang has joined the channel

Marcel Keller (marcel.keller@ut.ee)
2020-09-22 12:04:54

@Marcel Keller has joined the channel

Gunnar Neumann (gunnar_neumann@eva.mpg.de)
2020-09-22 19:47:13

@Gunnar Neumann has joined the channel

Kelly Blevins (blevinske1@gmail.com)
2020-09-22 19:47:17

@Kelly Blevins has joined the channel

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-11-19 15:23:28

@Åshild (Ash) @aidanva let me know once you've looked throug the manuscript/response letter (I want at least 'Go's from the core team at a minimum) 🙂

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-12-21 14:29:34

@aidanva @James Fellows Yates I’m getting ready to add the papers that I signed up for on the ’dir. However, several of these were the ‘problematic’ papers where the genomes date after 1950, ie 1960s etc. Do we want to include these still? How should I enter these with regard to date, assuming we want to include them?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:41:27

Ah yeah

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:41:46

Now our paper is accepted I guess we can loosen the restrictions for now...

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:42:01

I would still indicate them as 100 (i.e. within the last 100 years)

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:42:15

I honestly don't know. It depends if yo uwould use them or not

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:42:40

Like the HIV (was it?) one, do you tihnk people would really use that much aDNA?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:42:53

I personally would lean against it as I think it's barely aDNA.

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:43:37

If someone did fine e.g. a 10,000 year old HIV virus they would have to build modern datasets anyway and would pick that up

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:44:39

so I think leaving out 1950 cut-off might be suffiicent, as then we can use the limitation of the most common dating techniuqe in archaeology.

Exceptions could be papers that have a mixture of both >1950 and younger stuff (but still sort of ancient)

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2020-12-21 14:44:41

What do you think?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-12-21 14:52:40

Yeah, it’s two HIV papers with genomes from the 60's

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2020-12-21 14:53:27

I can leave them out for now. We need to draw a line I suppose, and 1950 is as good as any

👍 James Fellows Yates
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 09:14:06

@channel for appers with a mixture, what about a cut off if more than 50% of samples are older than 1950?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 09:14:21

50% of ancient samples I mean

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 09:14:47

(as we would exclude modern ones)

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 09:14:47

Have the same issue with @Miriam Bravo’s latest PR

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 09:27:59

I don't think I understand what you mean. So you won't include a paper if less that half of the samples are ancient?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 09:45:22

Ok, so criteria would be

1) does the paper say they include ancient samples (i.e. report damage) 2) of the ones they consider 'ancient', are >= 50% of these older than 1950

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 09:51:29

I would just include the ones that are pre-1950…and then people can read the paper and make their own decisions about what they want to include 🤷‍♀️

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 09:54:35

I agree with Ash, it just seems a random cut off

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 09:59:42

I'm confused

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 09:59:47

do you mean post-1950?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:00:27

I meant more that if the majority of the 'ancient' samples are from 1970 or 180 or something, then we don't include the paper at all

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:03:59

I will include any paper that has samples predating to 1950. However, only samples predating 1950 should be included in the database. Then people should read the paper and decide if they wanna include anything else in their analysis. I think that's what @Åshild (Ash) was saying

👍 Åshild (Ash)
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:04:31

The think is I don't particualrly like this half splitting of actual samples...

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:04:32

butok

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:04:44

but we do that anyway

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:04:50

I'll put it up as a vote then that 1950 is the hard cut off

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:04:51

?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:04:55

in some papers they sequence modern strains alongside with ancient ones

👍 Åshild (Ash)
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:05:12

*Thread Reply:* Exactly

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:05:01

(will need to go back and check everything then)

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:05:08

but then the don't include the modern ones right?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:05:18

True

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:05:45

Didn't we already agreed that 1950 was the cut-off for ancient?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:07:43

*Thread Reply:* Not definitevely

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:05:50

but sure, put up the vote

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:05:54

Bos 2014 and Schuenemann 2013 include modern genomes (off the top of my head)

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:06:29

That is a lot of work to go back and add, and it makes no sense to include these modern genomes in the dir

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:07:58

agreed

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:08:07

We woudln't include modern genomes

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:08:14

But I guess then th esame issue of a cut off would apply, true

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:09:35

the philosophical question here is: What is ancient? and depending on what you consider as defining features of aDNA, you can set different cut offs. We should just decide on one and stick to it, and be upfront that this is what is recorded in this database

👍 James Fellows Yates, Åshild (Ash)
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:12:09

1950 is a good cut off, as that’s what the 14C dates are calculated off, and then we can still include genomes from the early 1900s, which are now over 100 years old

☝️ aidanva
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:12:58

Naja, but that is where my uncertaintiy comes in. Should we use 14C as our gold standard... I dunno if that is regularly done e.g. on sedaDNA

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2021-06-24 10:14:06

what is considered as ancient is subjective, so I think it’s fine that we decide an arbitrary number, even if it coincides with the 14C date.

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-06-24 10:14:12

Oky doky

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-07-12 08:36:18

@Åshild (Ash) @aidanva in case you didn't see the doodle email, planning for the open data award application thing will be July 30th 9-10

👍 aidanva, Åshild (Ash)
Nico Rascovan (nicorasco@gmail.com)
2021-09-24 10:23:58

@Nico Rascovan has joined the channel

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-09 08:34:42

@channel thoughts?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-11-09 08:52:04

*Thread Reply:* I did a quick check, it seems that the library was selected only for siRNA. I would say that that’s not a complete genome and I’m not sure how metagenomic it is. So I wouldn’t include it at the moment, but it make me think: did we add other RNA studies before?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-09 09:59:33

*Thread Reply:* Good question

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-09 09:59:43

*Thread Reply:* I think there was a couple yes 🤔

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-09 10:00:43

*Thread Reply:*

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-09 10:00:48

*Thread Reply:* Looks pretty complete genome to me?

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2021-11-09 14:36:55

*Thread Reply:* I’ve only had time to look at it very briefly, but I think we should add it. We have added other RNA genomes before and since it is at such high coverage, as James points out, I don’t see any reason not to add it

👍 James Fellows Yates
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-11-10 09:41:56

*Thread Reply:* I agree, I missread it, not that I look at it more in depth we should add it.

👍 Åshild (Ash)
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-09 08:34:44

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8553777/

PubMed Central (PMC)
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-20 06:16:08
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 08:53:20

it is quite low, but I don't remember if we established a cut off by coverage?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-22 08:55:32

Iirc initially we were aiming for reasonable coverage to say a 'partial genome' (so people can do some form of phylogenetic analysis), but then we included some stuff from that paper from the Turkish group (forgetting the name now) that Anders Götherström works with..., I think?

Does this paper have 1x coverage of a plasmid at least?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 08:58:11

they had more reads, Kilinç 2021 (doi: 10.1126/sciadv.abc4587) right?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 09:00:31

but the enrichment looks good

👍 James Fellows Yates
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 09:00:43

since we included Kilinç, we should include this one too

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-22 09:44:07

That's the one

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-11-22 09:44:38

@aidanva could you make the issue?

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 10:04:26

sure

❤️ James Fellows Yates
Nico Rascovan (nicorasco@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 10:12:59

The number of unique reads in Kilinç 2021 was higher though: yak022: 1640 yak023: 3070 irk050: 3289

aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 10:13:48

for one of the samples after capture the read count is higher: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-98214-2/tables/5

Nico Rascovan (nicorasco@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 10:15:30

oh, yes, you’re right

Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2021-11-22 19:19:18

I think we discussed previously a threshold of minimum 0.1X coverage for a “genome”/sample to be included in the list

Laura Carrillo Olivas (laura-carrillo-olivas@hotmail.com)
2021-11-30 18:05:22

@Laura Carrillo Olivas has joined the channel

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-12-08 21:03:47

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666517421000699#sec0013

sciencedirect.com
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-12-08 21:03:52

Y/N?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-12-08 21:03:59

One from Drancort...

Kelly Blevins (blevinske1@gmail.com)
2021-12-09 10:57:13

*Thread Reply:* Is any one else’s mind blown that bacteria from 100-year-old teeth from non-permafrost burial conditions could be cultured?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-12-09 12:16:29

*Thread Reply:* 😏

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2021-12-09 12:16:40

*Thread Reply:* 🐟 🐟 🐟 🐟 🐟

😂 Kelly Blevins
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2022-03-03 18:44:44

@Olivia has joined the channel

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2022-05-01 20:20:00

@Nikolay Oskolkov has joined the channel

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-05-26 19:03:16

Y/N for the TB hits?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10899-1

Nature
aidanva (aida.andrades@gmail.com)
2022-05-26 19:24:24

mmmm... they have 161 reads mapping to the TB chromosome... that's very low...

👍 James Fellows Yates, Nikolay Oskolkov
Åshild (Ash) (ashild.v@gmail.com)
2022-05-27 12:40:34

No, too few reads unfortunately. They state that they cannot properly authenticate it, although they are probably real reads. However, not enough for 0.1X coverage to qualify this as a “genome” and for inclusion in the dir

👍 James Fellows Yates, aidanva
👍:skin_tone_3: Meriam van Os
James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-05-27 20:45:57

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9090925/

PubMed Central (PMC)
Meriam van Os (meriam.vanos@postgrad.otago.ac.nz)
2022-05-29 01:26:39

@Meriam van Os has joined the channel

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:10:20

@aidanva @Åshild (Ash) Should we just drop Woroby (HIV) thing?

I say this as actually the sample is younger than 1950 (our rule of thumb), also while it does have consensus sequences, I'm finding it hard to work out which is associated with which

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:14:18

No wait, found a way to associate each one

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:23:35

@aidanva Gok4 didn't have a Y. pestis genome in teh end right?

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:23:43

Or even @Nico Rascovan

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:24:13

It's mentioned in the methods but mysteriously disappears from teh rest of the paper 😬

Nico Rascovan (nicorasco@gmail.com)
2022-07-06 17:24:14

In my opinion it does have pestis

Nico Rascovan (nicorasco@gmail.com)
2022-07-06 17:24:27

but very few reads, so no phylogeny is possible

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:24:39

OK, so not genome reconstruction-level

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:24:40

?

Nico Rascovan (nicorasco@gmail.com)
2022-07-06 17:24:46

but edit distances, etc. clearly show it is pestis

Nico Rascovan (nicorasco@gmail.com)
2022-07-06 17:24:54

no genome reconstruction, indeed

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:24:57

OK cool

James Fellows Yates (james_fellows_yates@eva.mpg.de)
2022-07-06 17:25:00

Merci

Nico Rascovan (nicorasco@gmail.com)
2022-07-06 17:25:12

you’re welcome

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2023-01-07 17:33:04

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2023-06-01 22:04:37

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2024-06-04 11:58:37

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